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Post by Gerrald Bostock on May 11, 2017 13:33:55 GMT
Seems these days with so many platforms on social media, it becomes a challenge as to how to use your time and resources. With the advent and popularity of Facebook, it seems that chat boards have become a thing of the past. With Facebook you just click and post a picture and you reach as many people as you target. Quick easy and simple. The problem then becomes it is harder and harder to have any serious discussions and substantive debate, I am not saying that it does not or can not happen but it is very difficult to be able to. It is easier for discussion to get sidetracked and trolled, consequently making it a lot harder to manage and maintain it. Its not to say that it does not happen on chat boards, but it is easier to control. So what are you to do if you are to maintain multiple social media platforms, that has become the a enigma of it. The difficulty is to find balance, and I guess that it is time for us to try and find that. Sadly this chat board has suffered by that, and now maybe it is time that some how (we) can try again to do both. These sites are maintained and run by the Jethro Tull Group (Pat, Erin and myself mostly) at a LOSS of money to us. It is certainly not the reason we do these, it is to try and inform and keep the legacy of Jethro Tull and all of the former and current and lets hope future members of future projects in the news and up to date. That said we are going to try and devote a little more time on this chat board site. Do not know how much interest it will get but back at it.
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Post by Quizz Kid on May 11, 2017 16:52:49 GMT
it's horses for courses, Facebook serves a gap in the social media world but unregulated it leads to too many problems, I know we possibly take some stick for being a regulated and managed page, but as a wise man once said it means filtering out the xxxxxxxxx trolls and those looking to just spam pages up. It's a sad but true consequence of everyone having a voice. Luckily we do post our guidelines and we work hard to manage them albeit fairly and honestly.
But,
There is scope to use these chat boards for longer, possibly more meaningful, less tangential chats.
There's no rules to say they have to be filled up everyday, or even accessed by hundreds, as long as it's like minded fans who discuss around the broad topic that is Tull, music and a bit of fun then I'm good with that.
Tull doesn't need to need to be Dull.
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Post by Quizz Kid on May 15, 2017 0:33:30 GMT
I should have mentioned the excellent piece written by Dave Rees in the latest edition of 'A New Day'.
I think it perfectly sums up the issues in running any discussion based group on any social media platform, particularly a forum, and that's how you go about handling the trolls and so called fans who are only out to cause trouble, disrupt or bad mouth you and/or your members Many "fans" have been using legitimate issues, such as Martin's departure, Ian's vocals, the use of the band name etc, etc, to inflame arguments amongst other fans, or against other fan sites, God knows how many we've had to deal with over the years. The level of vitriol and shear nastiness some of these people carry around with them seems to know no bounds.
I think Dave did a huge service highlighting the problem to those of us who run real fan sites and I think it's becoming increasingly evident to the scale of the problem caused by troublemakers and keyboard warriors.
No-one running a site that is catering for real fans should want to piss any person off. We've all made mistakes and caused or got embroiled in arguments. Maybe we should all be a bit more tolerant of other fan sites, maybe some can't go that far, but if we really support the wider notion of an 'entity' called Jethro Tull then we are not one another's enemy, or at least we shouldn't be. No-one runs a group like this for competition, the quality and content may vary from site to site but that's about personal standards or simply it might be the amount of time you have to devote to it, the bottom line is it's not as if we make any money doing this and I know for us here at The Jethro Tull Group given the amount of personal time and personal money we put into it, it really is nothing more than a labour of love.
Maybe we should all focus on trying to deal with the real trolls and so called trouble making 'fans' we all have to deal with, and maybe filter them out, and from here on I'll be doing it in a less tolerant way in future, no three strikes and out, act the arse and you're gone.
Treat these places like they are someone's home, crap on the doorstep and the door will hit you hard and squarely on the arse as you leave.
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Post by Gerrald Bostock on May 16, 2017 18:02:51 GMT
That is it exactly Pat, if everybody treat chat boards and for that matter social group pages as their own the few who liked to troll and cause issues might be less inclined to do that. Sadly as in everything a handful of folks think it is OK to start divisive arguments with the aura of I was just asking the question. Sadly the question has been asked a million times and have caused many angry responses. I do think in the rare case some one might legitimately ask and as long as they are sincere I do not object to answering it. It is the folks that do for a Wind Up that are problematic.
Dave addressed a problem that has plagued not only the Tull world but a lot of what social media has become.
Nice comment
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Post by Quizz Kid on Jul 14, 2017 11:36:21 GMT
Dave's comments sort of lit a fire under me. They made me realise that a lot of detritus as well as water had flowed under the bridges between various sites and forums and that maybe, just maybe, a few of those bridges were in need of repair or rebuilding.
That was made even more evident when I came over to see you and Martin in the U.S. earlier this year. A lot of folk, fan's I didn't know personally, asked why there were so many fan groups and what caused the rifts between them. I couldn't do anything but reply as honestly, but as politely as I could, not flaming anyone person or group, explaining that the issues go back a long way. Some I spoke with openly said they'd hoped for a reconciliation, again I honestly replied that I didn't think that would happen as the forums had all gone off along different paths with their own agendas, but that I personally, and I know you agree with me, would welcome a little less intolerance and would hope that the owners of other sites would feel the same way.
I know you're trying to genuinely assist Martin as a friend [as well as Ian] in anyway you can, but I was pretty appalled to hear that your attempts to share information and access to Martin's music met with you being banned by one of the other forums for no other apparent reason.
I can only say that we've moved on, if others want to go on fanning the same old flames, let them. You, I and we, including Erin, as a group have done our best to try, we remain as inclusive as we can be and I'm good to let people know that along with the circumstances as to why other fans may not get to hear about accessing Martin's music as readily as those in our group.
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Post by Gerrald Bostock on Jul 14, 2017 13:35:36 GMT
Dave's comments sort of lit a fire under me. They made me realise that a lot of detritus as well as water had flowed under the bridges between various sites, and forums and that maybe, just maybe, a few of those bridges were in need of repair or rebuilding. That was made even more evident when I came over to see you and Martin in the U.S. earlier this year. A lot of folk, fan's I didn't know personally, asked why there were so many fan groups and what caused the rifts between them. I couldn't do anything but reply as honestly, but as politely as I could, not flaming anyone person or group, explaining that the issues go back a long way. Some I spoke with openly said they'd hoped for a reconciliation, again I honestly replied that I didn't think that would happen as the forums had all gone off along different paths with their own agendas, but that I personally, and I know you agree with me, would welcome a little less intolerance and would hope that the owners of other sites would feel the same way. I know you're trying to genuinely assist Martin as a friend [as well as Ian] in anyway you can, but I was pretty appalled to hear that your attempts to share information and access to Martin's music met with you being banned by one of the other forums for no other apparent reason. I can only say that we've moved on, if others want to go on fanning the same old flames, let them. You, I and we, including Erin, as a group have done our best to try, we remain as inclusive as we can be and I'm good to let people know that along with the circumstances as to why other fans may not get to hear about accessing Martin's music as readily as those in our group. Well Pat what amazes me is the amount of work Erin, you and me put into music of Jethro Tull be it Martin, Ian, Dee, Peggy or anything associated with their music. With no financial return, sadly I honestly do not know how much money we have spent (lost) on all of our various projects to bring access to punters. Simply put you sometimes wonder if its worth while to keep doing it. I guess we call it passion and trying to keep the legacy of Jethro Tull's music alive. Which makes the line "its only the giving that makes you what you are" very relevant to this discussion. With the sheer amount of projects we are currently involved in at the moment not counting this site, Facebook, YouTube, Word Press page, the manual and I am sure I am missing something else. We are also knee deep in projects working on a book, helping WB with the box sets, a few project involving former band members, helping Dave Rees mail out the US issues of AND, and its goes on and on. I know what I spend on time per week and I am the sure it is the same for yourself and Erin but I would hate to think what a weekly price that would be...say we use the conservative number of 20 hours a week on this site from each of us (3 hours a day) that would be 60 hours times 52 weeks, well you get the idea. One thing you can never get back is time, once its gone its lost never to get it back. So we have to ask ourselves is it worth losing this precious resource. Time is not on our side and we have to be selective in how we plan that so when the same old tired players play their typical games you have to consider the sources. I it took it a honor to help Martin, by selling his DVD (Live at Daryl's) and the Back to Steel vinyl as an opportunity to let people who for what ever reason could not attend the show or lived in another country to be able to have the chance to purchase. I found it a bit shall we say interesting that for what ever reason I was no longer welcome in a certain chat page eye opening to say the least. That said I can not really worry what others do, or say it only actually hurts people who might want to get these. I also know that their are many things that are coming to fruition that will be really too bad that some will be left out of. So I have no time for places that places want to live in their glass houses, who want to exclude and not work on way to building bridges and move ahead to celebrate 50 years of Jethro Tull.....I also have no time for the trolls and the shit stirrers.
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Post by bambooflute on Aug 17, 2017 2:54:53 GMT
Interesting reading, people. Well done. I respect the hard work you do for fans, but I am done with social media (what little I use, that is). I do not use Facebook, and my experiences sharing my Tull opinions online elsewhere have been chequered, at best.
As early as 2002, when the official Tull website (briefly) had a live chat section, I was personally insulted and vilified for my musical opinions. They may not have matched the majority, but I stated them without making a personal attack on any individual, and I never passed judgment on those with a different point of view. Much later, with the advent of message boards, I was once again taken to task for expressing disinterest in the work of Martin Barre. Note it was the work - not the man. My opinion was called into question with the suggestion that if I were a musician myself then my feelings would be different or more valid. Well, this is utter tosh, obviously. I have helped run art galleries and the opinions of any visitor to the gallery are valid, regardless of their own artistic knowledge or skill. I have had people like and dislike my own works, which is perfectly fine. I never responded to a critical comment by asking the person if they were an artist themselves in order for them to justify their opinion. Can only a chef comment on a restaurant where they have eaten? No. Knowledge of the subject under discussion can add depth and texture to a critical discussion, but an individual's taste should not be the subject of derision. I don't like the electric guitar. So what? I am still a human being worthy of respect.
It got much worse, of course...and I've experienced, witnessed, and heard tales of some downright ugly fan behavior. At one point it was suggested that I was a troll because I had some negative opinions. I don't feel I was ever a troll, for I didn't make it personal. This is another aspect of social media that I find disgusting: if you are critical, those who dislike your opinion can label you with the T word. While I am in favor of positivity, Life ain't always sunshine and roses, and the ability to have honest discussions is rendered impossible without the ability to be critical. Constructive criticism is best, spirited criticism can be both entertaining and thought-provoking, but making it personal bleeds the humanity right out of it.
I often told Charlie I wished I were younger again, listening to my Tull on vinyl without personally knowing any other fans. Few of my friends or family have any interest in Jethro Tull, and maybe that is for the best.
To sum up, I would like to thank Charlie, Pat, and Erin for their hard work on behalf of the fans. Ian Anderson once said he felt that music is a very private thing, so I am going back to enjoying it on that level, away from people who insist that my opinions are wrong.
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